And I return your girl pound.

“I’m surprised at the defensiveness of many of the people responding to this post”

I’m not. The privileged don’t like to have their actions or language restricted, even out of respect for other people or an attempt to build community. They think it’s impinging on their “freedom”, and that’s all that matters. Talk about whiny whiny Wallow Wallow!

Thank you Alex, for breaking it down into bite-size pieces that everyone - no matter how big their mouth! - can use.

I think at the end of the day, it’s all about who’s saying it to you (my sweetie gets slack, I don’t belong to el machismo en la calle, and “female” needs to be retired back to the military if that’s where it came from) — and whether everyone involved actually knows what they’re really saying.

Knowledge is power.

*offers Alex a girl pound*

- Yo soy ardiente, yo soy morena,
Yo soy el símbolo de la pasión;
de ansia de goces mi alma está llena.
¿A mí me buscas? - No es a ti, no.

- Mi frente es pálida; mis trenzas, de oro;
puedo brindarte dichas sin fin;
yo de ternura guardo un tesoro.
¿A mí me llamas? - No; no es a ti.

- Yo soy un sueño, un imposible,
vano fantasma de niebla y luz;
soy incorpórea, soy intangible;
no puedo amarte. - ¡Oh, ven; ven tú!

–Gustavo Becquer

All I see, and I say this as a woman, is women drowning themselves in a glass of water. Ahogando en un vaso de agua, as mentioned above.

Talking to hear themselves talk and all that’s coming out is the blub-blub-blub sound of someone flopping around aimlessly without being able to make much of an educated or educational point.

1. I’m surprised at the defensiveness of many of the people responding to this post, and I think it does have a lot to do with what María Elena brought up as a “sigh of relief.” While it’s true that inside Mexico (I can’t vouch for any other countries, but I think it’s fair to extrapolate) words like gordita and flaquita carry less weight (in their delivery AND more importantly reception), it’s precisely in the American context, where you have the collision of opposing cultural practices that you brought up, Alex, where such things become volatile. I do think that the lack of critical gaze directed at language in Mexico (or I suppose, its emphasis here) has to do with a general lack of emphasis on criticising cultural practises. Why? Maybe it has to do with the reign of the PRI, I don’t know. But I do think that the tradition America has of critically examining its own cultural practices (and the reactions against that trend) has its roots in the Civil Rights movement.

It’s why Memín Pingüín

is totally cool in Mexico, and so not cool here.

Why is Lola reacting so strongly against what your idea? Maybe it has to do with María Elena’s idea of embracing such (at least ostensible) cariñoso labels as a way out of an Anglo restrictive culture. Maybe it’s a form of emphasizing difference; the “in knowledge” that you brought up. By labeling oneself as morenita, we can say that a woman is at once insisting in her own sexualization (despite the problems that sexualizing herself in an objectifying way entails) and insisting on her participation in a select group. It’s just a shame that ethnic Pride gets articulated in straight-up sexist terms.

2. That website was really disturbing, mostly because as the text went on, he started referring to sections of women by nonpossesive articles (the thighs/the midsection/ the ass) in a way that really gave the impression of talking about cuts of meat. About verbally butchering up a big tasty female. The impact of words, again, right? It’s not even his idea which is the most disturbing aspect of the site, it’s the language which he uses to express it.

3. It’s interesting to look at hip hop culture and all the sort of misogynistic aspects that come up in comparison to Dancehall culture in Jamaica (and beyond, I guess). You mentioned the video vixens, I think of the Dancehall queens. Again we have another example of women deliberately participating in their own objectification, and declaring it empowering. Is it empowering? I guess the question there is if it’s really possible to take back a form, a word, a context, while it is still operating. If the word “nigger” was still openly used, could “nigga” have been ‘taken back’?

4. In Brazil, “ter um pé na cocina”, a phrase which literally translates to “having a foot in the kitchen”, is colloquially used by white Brazilians to claim (distant) black ancestry. Now, to us, not being exposed to the phrase, its racist and sexist aspects are overwhelming. But in Brazil, it has been used so much that in a meeting with President Bush, President Lula claimed to have “um pé na cocina.” This is the PRESIDENT of a country. Could it be, fellow commenters, that we are so ahogados in our context that we’re failing to see something very obvious, and that it’s damn time we start talking about it?

I hated when people referred to me as gordita

and hate it even more when men are depicted (on TV, media) using these hateful terms in a sexual way–language of love? come on!

does that really turn women on? yeeshhhh…

My father’s family is apt to call him “flaco”, though he is far from it now, because he used to be “flaco” when he was younger. My mom has no pet name. My uncle’s wife calls him “gordo” because he has always been big. My cousin calls his friends “gueyes” (like buey, for ox, a castrated cow). Well. Does this mean there is also some kind of misandry in our culture?

And yes, Latino culture is different. And it might not be the most enlightened, or the one that treats women the best. But, few societies do. Yes, women’s bodies are different, with different functions, but both men and women have nicknames that describe some aspect. Saying nicknames should be different for women could be construed as sexist in itself. Terms like “negro/a”, “chino/a”, “flaco/a” are more about creating a nickname for someone than implying that there is something less about him/her. These “pet names” you refer to are a bit different than a business man calling his secretary “sweety” or “honey bun”.

I also think it these terms help diffuse prejudice, you acknowledge race, physical appearance, etc., without being hateful, or rejecting. Eres flaco. Eres gorda. Pero asi te quiero. Asi somos amigos.

I’m sorry saying “ranty” hurt, but you jumped from sexism, to racism, to latinos and blacks, to sociology without clear transitions or examples. IMO. Your piece lacked focus. Creo que te ahogas en un vaso de agua. Honestly, there are bigger and more powerful norms in Latino culture that could cultivate discussion. And if I don’t like my family to call me “gorda”, I’ll let them know. As I believe most people would, with whatever nickname they dislike.

More words for your list of unacceptables:
MACHITA in Costa Rica refers to a blonde.
FLACO/A in Peru refers to your significant other
WHITEY in the Carribean refers to a white person

I think the points in this piece are valid. Labels are labels, and who wants to be labeled? I just want to be me.

However I will concede that some labels do initially feel counter-cultural. Gordita sounds kinda nice what with living with the culture’s goddamn hand on your throat about being skinnyskinnyskinny all the time. Through the lens of America’s “white is right” culture, “negrito lindo” practically feels like a sigh of relief.

But I’m not going to kid myself - it works both ways. Having my latino friends in h.s. calling me “white girl” from the sides of their mouths constantly still makes me grind my teeth. And this was from people who straightened and colored their hair yellow and wore actual FREAKING BLUE CONTACTS. WTF.

The point is that we do label people to compartmentalize them. And every term has its own history. I think Alex was right in that we need to constantly examine the words we use and not be complacent. The goal is to make the world a nicer place for ourselves and not let ourselves be marginalized by labels. Some might think that calling your bf “bitch/slut/whore/etc” is to reclaim those words, but those are words I choose to expel from my vocabulary because they don’t feel right in my gut. Because it’s bullshit. Because I know their history. Because it’s bullshit. So call yourself what you want, but be realistic about it.

So that’s my 2 cents. Oh btw - that website was ATROCIOUS.

Again, I’m detached from my “Mexican” relatives (I might as well be white), but I wouldn’t care if someone preferred me to call them “Blacky” or “Whitey” or “Fatty” or “Caramel Delight”. I wouldn’t choose to go by a nickname like that. I’d rather use my full name, short name, middle name, last name, or a bar code. But I’m used to using nicknames for a purpose, not just as a tradition or because everyone else has one.

That said: Alex, never call me by my Spanish familial nickname. I don’t understand how it applies to me and I’ll never be comfortable with it.

I didn’t want to spend any more time on it because I don’t like people who wallow.